(no subject)

[lapsedmodernist]

can anybody that knows anything about the issue give me some sort of scenario, or provide a link to anything explaining how, if the switch to electornic voter machines takes place, we are not completely and utterly fucked in 2004? because from everything i have read it seems like we are, but i know that my brain tends to work in a closed-system kind of way sometimes, where it's hard for me to imagine new information that is not derived from premises i understand all too well. so, is there any point to the DNC and campaigning and all that stuff? so, if someone can provide the information, i want to know
a) if there are any things that i am not taking into consideration in my completely pessimisitc imaginary of what will happen
and
b) what can be done about it? i know there are lawsuits, and i know there is a lot of awareness about it, at least in progressive/democratic circles, but are there any campaigns? grassroots movements? any checks or appeals procedure that circumnavigates our own personal matrix?

Comments

[creed-of-hubris.livejournal.com]

Huh? I'm not following you.

Are you suggesting that all electronic voting machines will be utterly and completely slanted Republican? That seems a bit paranoid. Don't they have electronic voting machines in Europe? The voting process there seems to work effectively.

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

yes, i am saying that the machines can be easily rigged.

i don't think that i am being paranoid in the unfounded "conspiracy theory" sense about it. i have done a lot of reading on it, and it does not look good.

actually, most of Europe (and Canada) still uses paper ballots. The only European country currently trying to push through a reform to institute electronic voting machines is, unsurprisingly, Great Britain. otherwise, it's still paper and hand-counting.

i do find it a cause for concern that the Republicans are in a huge hurry to push through a multi-million dollar initiative to replace all voting machines with electronic ones before the 2004 election; machines that a) are contracted from private companies with non-discosure policies, so that it's impossible to get information on investors, and no provisions made for conflict of interest (like the case with Rep. Sen. Chuck Hagel in Nebraska, who used to run the company that built most of the voting machines) b) have no paper trails, and do not provide for exit polls or audits in case of contested votes, and c) there have already been complaints, concerns and lawsuits over regional elections being "fixed" with such machines--really basic things get fucked up, like pushing Democrat button on-screen resulting in a vote for Republican being cast (Dallas 2002)

here is a URL for a very informative site on the matter. there are a lot of essays in general on the internet about the dangers of electronic voting machines, but this site is very specific and deals with actual cases precedents, and breaks down this issue in a very practical, realistic way. if you think that i am paranoid because you already know the info presented there, that's obviously your prerogative, but if you have not read it, i urge you to check it out, or read VoteScam by the (late) Collier brothers. Then i'd be curious to hear if you still think i am paranoid.

http://www.talion.com/voting-machines.html

Re:

[creed-of-hubris.livejournal.com]

I'm a big fan of constructive paranoia; I used to have a paranoia radio show, and I do believe the odd piece of paranoia (I got handed a memo on Project Echelon, for instance, long before it became public knowledge, and I'm on record as saying it looks true to me :-)

I was basing my Europe comment on the knowledge that they handle elections, and disputed elections, much more rapidly and efficiently over there.

I've heard about VoteScam in one of my old conspiracy books; never actually read it. That site is pretty damning.

Of course, we still have the problem of Florida-style punch cards, which need to be eliminated. In Monroe County, we've got lever-based booths that seem to work rather well, but I had to use punch cards for an absentee ballot. (Boy, that sucked). Are the lever booths what you think should go forward everywhere?

long live constructive paranoia :)

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

I think that hand-counted paper ballots are the best way to minimize rigging. There is nothing wrong with lever booths. Punch cards and anything that needs to be scanned is much more problematic, but more because of the potential for inaccuracy than anything else. Ballots can be redesigned, or whatever, that system is not perfect, but there are ways in which it can be optimized. IF electronic machines replace the mechanical ones, then there HAS to be a) a voter-verifiable paper audit trail (like a receipt, voter can get a copy and a copy should be filed in a separate ballot box in case hand-counting is needed) AND b) exit polls have to be reinstituted, because without exit polls voter receipts would not do much good, because there is no way to know if what is printed on the receipt is actually how the vote registered, so if there is descreptancy between exit polls and actual numbers there are paper records that can be checked. Also, the machine construction/programming cannot be privatized, and there should be a provision for independently contracted inspectors (something that is verboten now). Obviously none of this will be implimented, which is why electronic machines are a horrible idea, that completely ensures that Bush & Co remain in company unless some pissed-off radical hackers hack the election. But I sort of wish that wouldn't be our only hope.

What exactly is Project Echelon? Is that like a global surveillance system like in the Enemy of the State movie? That was a fucking scary movie.

Re: long live constructive paranoia :)

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

i meant to write "Bush & Co remain in power"--Freudian slip on my part, i suppose--the governent is one big corporate company.

Re: long live constructive paranoia :)

[creed-of-hubris.livejournal.com]

Project Echelon

it really is exactly like Enemy of the State

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

lovely. what is especially interesting to me is that when people mention anything that is just a part of what's described as Echelon's activities, such as internet data collection "spiders" that fish for word combos, or the idea that certain code words set off phone tapping (although i was wondering about that--i am sure after 9/11 everyone said those code words all the time, just in discussing or relaying the news), the response is that they are usually too paranoid, and yet here is this thing that apparently exists and does all that and much more. i have heard about it in passing before, but what i did not realize is that there are governments that actually copped to its usage. jesus christ.