Inquiry

[lapsedmodernist]

Does anyone know why MTA trains skip certain letters? like, there is the A, B, C, D, E, F, G but not H or I, there is a J but then it skips K

Basically these are the letters that have trains...named after them, i guess? can you name something after a letter that is a purely arbitrary Saussurian sign?
Anyway: Letters featured on New York Subway trains:
A B C D E F G J L M N Q R S (but i don't know if it is just "S" or if it stands for Shuttle) V W Z

Missing letters:
H I K O P T U X Y

It seems random; I can't figure out any sort of underlying principle. I have tried googling it, but although I am usually very good at node-hopping (TM William Gibson), I was unsuccesful this time.

Similarly, why is there no "8" train? Every other 1 through 9 number is utilized. Is "8" like the train equivalent of a 13th floor in a hotel room?

Someone please enlighten me.

Comments

Foxtrot Charlie

[flynngrrl.livejournal.com]

It might be similar to the military alphabet: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Foxtrot... they all sound extremely different so you don't mix up letters. 8 and H are a lot alike, and similar to A. T is like D. I don't think that works for all of them, but it's an interesting idea...

Re: Foxtrot Charlie

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

hm, that is an interesting idea...but then we have the M and N trains that sound very similar, and it seems like either 8 or H could be used if that was the case...oh, i just don't know!

[apathyfabulous.livejournal.com]

I am guessing they are just old lines that dont run anymore and they arent using them in case they ever want to start the old lines back up. There is a vast expanse of unused tunnels under manhattan. They show some of the old unused lines in Style Wars.

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

he-he-he, that was an awesome movie. i especially like that interview with Ed Koch when he proposes to get a wolf to guard the train depot. what a freak.

[apathyfabulous.livejournal.com]

Is that art? I dont know... I'm not an art critic, but I can sure as hell tell you that that's a crime.

I have a ton of graf pics in my photojournal if you are into all that.

[never-the-less.livejournal.com]

I do not know the answers to your questions, but here is
A good site for NYC subway info that might have some answers.

Although I can say that S is just for Shuttle, as there are two of them (the Grand St. line and the one out in Brooklyn NE of Prospect Park (from the 2/3 to the A/C??)

[never-the-less.livejournal.com]

Another link with more historical sutff.

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

thanks for the links! i've seen the second one before; i wish it had an FAQ or something...although maybe people don't ask questions about the history of the subway frequently. i still can't find the answer though.

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

Pink typewriter!

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

yes.

[mufflerman.livejournal.com]

Actually, some of the letters are just obviously no-no's: O's could be oh's or zero's--- I's and H's are also confusing.. no idea why there's no 'K' train 'S' DOES stand for shuttle (there are in fact, three "S" trains). I believe the letters and numbers are chosen for their instant recognition qualities. I'm also a bit miffed at your unexplained use of "Saussarian" but I'd rather talk about trains.

The only letter that I see as having no good reason not to be included is 'K'. It's easily recognizable you can turn it any which way and it still looks like a 'K'. Perhaps it kind of looks like an arrow?

- Horace

i will talk about saussure

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

"saussurian" not "saussarian"
saussure wrote about how the relationship between signifiers and signifieds can be arbitrary (as opposed to indexical, for example); when the signifier has no logical connection to what it signifies, it's just random. there is no reason why an "A" train is an "A" train, there is nothing about the letter "A" that has to do with the essence of that train line, it's an arbitrary denomination.

Re: i will talk about saussure

[mufflerman.livejournal.com]

I love what you write, but not so much when you explain to me things I already know, and especially when, you're kind of wrong. Saussure was particuarly interested in signs which appeared to have no obvious indexical meaning, because he believed there was some truer signification going on at the symbolic level- ie: that it's not "random" at all. Which was my inital problem with your using Saussure, since you were describing the 'A' train letters as being purely random, which Saussure would claim aren't. I mean, if they were totally random, they'd be dingbats and cowbells, not simply visual english letters,wouldn't they?

- Horace

don't be so insecure

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

denotating a train as "A" falls within the parameters as what Saussure described as "arbitrary" nature of signifiers. nothing about the letter "A" in and of itself indexes the train; connection is established only via a diachronically sustained convention.

Re: don't be so insecure

[mufflerman.livejournal.com]

You know, you're half right, but I won't play anymore if you insult me. Chalk it up to my insecurity.

[superchango.livejournal.com]

The K train run in the 80's.
http://members.aol.com/bdmnqr2/linehistory.html

holy crap

[lowhumcrush.livejournal.com]

i happened upon a comment of yours and couldn't help but be...tickled pink by your user icon.
especially considering i had that EXACT typewriter tattooed on me a coupla weeks ago.

is that an underwood?

bedazzled,
rachel mcK

Re: holy crap

[(Anonymous)]

you know, i just added that as an icon today...so i don't know...i just really liked it. how big is your tattoo of it/where on your body is it?

H train

[(Anonymous)]

There actually used to be an H train. It was an extension of the A train in Far Rockaway and just ran back and forth along the beach. But that's the only missing letter I can account for.

Re: H train

[superchango.livejournal.com]

The HH train.

Re: H train

[lapsedmodernist.livejournal.com]

that's the train that just railroaded california to hell.

[klingrap.livejournal.com]

I was actually obsessing over this the other day as well. Everything except the Ceasarian part, because I heard it's very painful for trains in labor to have Ceasarians when they give birth to baby trains.

Omigod, I really need to go back to bed.